[레딧번역]국제적인 대회가 많아져야 하는 이유(스압)

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2howxe/if_this_worlds_has_proven_anything_it_is_that_we/

본문 내용은 대략

'이번 롤드컵만큼 치열한 예선전도 없었다,

서부팀들도 한국과 대등하게 싸울만큼 실력이 많이 늘었다(실력차가 줄었다)

떨어진 팀들중 다른어떤팀이 8강에 올라가도 이상하지 않은 경기들이었다' 입니다.

제 관심을 끈 내용들은 댓글들이라서 번역해봅니다.

스압미리경고..

[–]xMil4Nx 762 점 17 hours ago 

Really the skillgap between koreans and western teams has lowered by a lot, Hopefully this will end the NA<>EU circlejerk and give birth to the NA/EU <> KR

맞아 한국팀들이랑 서부팀들이랑 실력차가 눈에띄게 줄었어. 이번 대회를 기점으로 NA랑 EU의 자존심싸움이 EU,NA대 한국의 싸움으로 옮겨갔으면 좋겠어

–]kjdevox 11 점 15 hours ago 

group stages havent ended and already u're commenting on the skill gap between the regions.

예선전 끝나지도 않았는데 벌써부터 실력차가 줄었다는 김칫국 마시지마

[–]iamzileanama 1 점 9 hours ago 

Group stage ended and I can safely say he's right about the skill gap. C9 took 1 game off a top 3 KR team and FNC + ALL is 2-2 with them. Let's hope TSM and C9 can take at least 1 game/2 games off their respective opponents.

예선전 끝났고 나도 이의견에 동의해. C9는 한국의 탑3팀중 한팀에게 1승을 했고 프나틱, 얼라이언스 둘다 2승2패야. TSM이랑 C9이 각각 상대팀을 상대로 적어도 1,2승은 할수있길 빌어

[–]tananinho 17 점 14 hours ago 

Why do people forget last year's Worlds?!

Ozone alone lost more games in the group stage than all 3 Korean teams lost this year. Also 3 Korean teams in QFs, last year there were 2.

Korea is stronger if anything.

왜 사람들은 작년 롤드컵은 잊은거야?!

작년 오존은 예선전에서 혼자 패한수가 이번 한국팀들의 총 패보다 많아. 그리고 작년에는 본선에 2팀뿐이었지만 이번엔 3팀이야.

[–][deleted] 25 점 14 hours ago 

seriously, korean teams collectively went, what, 16-3 against the rest of the world in groups and won all three groups they were in. what about this says to people "oh yeah the skillgap is definitely closing"

ㅇㄱㄹㅇ, 한국팀들은 전적 총합 16승 3패로 예선전에서 제패했고 다들 조1위로 진출했어. 도대체 이것의 어딜보고 '실력차가 현저히 줄었다' 라고하는거지? 

[–]iaaftyshm 8 점 9 hours ago 

People are delusional.

사람들이 망상에 찌든듯.

[–]rljohn 2 점 2 hours ago* 

Why are we quoting their overall record when comparing to NA/EU, when 4 of their wins were against IWC teams, another 2 to AHQ. These same teams were easily defeated by NA and most of EU as well.

Korea vs NA/EU: 6-3
Samsung White: 0-0
Samsung Blue: 3-1
Najin White Shield: 3-2

Semifinals will tell the true story, although I'm expecting 3-1's in both series. The Korean games vs NA/EU this year where not all as one-sided as hype would make you believe.

미국/유럽과의 상대전적을 얘기하는데 왜 총전적을 들먹이는거야, 4승은 와일드카드상대, 2승은 AHQ상대로 한거잖아. 유럽이랑 미국은 이 한국팀들을 쉽게 잡아냈어.

8강전이 진실을 말해주겠지만 난 그래도 한국이 3-1로 각각 이길거같아. 한국대 서부팀들의 경기는 꽤나 비등비등했어

[–]whocaresaboutu1 5 점 12 hours ago 

Except that skillgap has not lowered. koreans are 16-3 in group stage. If anything, the skillgap is actually becoming larger as seasons go. Koreans weren as dominent at season 2 and 3 worlds

실력차는 전혀 줄어들지 않았어. 한국팀들은 예선전을 16승 3패로 마무리했지. 적어도 시즌2, 시즌3에는 이정도로 좆바르진 않았어.

[–]ThreeFor 2 점 9 hours ago 

It's true that in s2 they weren't nearly as dominant, but since mid s3, the skill gap has been immense.

From what I can tell, the skill gap has at least lowered since a mid tier korean team (KTB at IEM) can sweep through the the other regions top teams without dropping a game early this season. SKT also didn't drop a game at all stars, and they certainly weren't in the most dominant position in Korea during that time.

맞아, 시즌2때는 그렇게 압도적이진 못했지만 시즌3 중반부터 실력차가 확 벌어졌지.

하지만 내생각에는 한국의 중위권 팀 (IEM에서의 KTB)가 다른나라들의 최고팀들을 무참히 발라버리고 폼이떨어진 SKT가 올스타에서 무패로 대회를 끝냈을때와 비교해보면 지금 실력차는 확실히 줄어든거같아.

I don't honestly think has lowered "A LOT" ... Yes it has been lowered due to better strategies and mindset once all of us seen how koreans really practice hard to get to what they want and how strict they are. But still, korea is currently 16-3 w/l in groups...... Not that bad of a record since last year samsung ozone dropped so many games to fnatic/gambit/vulcun.

난 갭이 크게 줄진 않았다고 생각해... 니말대로 한국인들의 연습하는방법과 전략들을 보고 다른팀들이 자극받아서 많이 쫒아오긴 했지. 그렇지만 여전히 한국의 예선전 전적은 16-3이야... 작년 오존 혼자서 프나틱 갬빗 불칸한테 3패한거를 생각해보면 전혀 나쁘지않은 전적이야.

[–]Ziddletwix 9 점 10 hours ago 

I think people forget that last year wasn't THAT onesided. Yeah, SKT dominated the non-Korean teams. But Ozone didn't even make it out of groups. Fnatic came VERY close to making it to the finals. Gambit played a strong series against NJBS.

Last year, the koreans were the best, but there wasn't a huge gap between rest of the world and non-SKT korean teams. But the whole point was this year was supposed to be far far worse. At both international events, struggling korean treams went undefeated against many of the west's best teams. This was the first time that the western teams were going to face the new set of dominant korean teams.

So the gap is easily as big as it was last year, if not more. Each korean team took #1 in their group, they still haven't yet lost a meaningful match. Last year, we already had one korean team fall by this point. But the gap isn't as big as it was supposed to be. Many people predicted clean 6-0's from each of the korean teams in groups, which didn't happen.

tl;dr People forget that last year wasn't THAT onesided. But most people expected this worlds to be far far worse. So far, it looks about as onesided as last year, which isn't too bad.

내생각에 사람들은 작년의 롤드컵은 그다지 일방적이지 않았다는걸 까먹은거같아. SKT가 대회를 가지고 논건 사실이지만 오존은 (불쌍한 동네북오존...) 예선전광탈하고 프나틱도 근소한차로 결승에 진출못했지. 갬빗게이밍은 나진블랙소드를 상대로 선전했고.

물론 작년에도 한국은 의심없이 일인자였지만 SKT를 제외한 한국팀들과 해외팀들의 격차는 그리 크지 않았어. 하지만 이번해는 좆망... 한국에서 부진하는 팀들을 상대로 해외 최고의 팀들이 떡실신당하고 지금 그들이 마주하고 있는팀들은 한국의 탑3팀이야. 작년 이맘때쯤에 한국의 어떤팀은 예선전도 통과못했지만(지못미...) 이번에는 3팀다 조1위로 가뿐하게 통과했고 아직 중요한 시합을 패한것도 아니야.

[–]Instantcoffees 12 점 16 hours ago 

I've been aboard the NA/EU <> KR train since the last two seasons. Not that I don't respect the Korean teams, they are just so good that I want to see them struggle harder against Western teams. This Worlds has shown that the gap has lessened. Hopefully next year we also have more consistent EU teams.

난 2년전부터 한국대 미국/유럽에 동참하고있었어. 한국인을 무시하는건 아니야, 그들이 너무 잘해서 그들이 우리 서부팀들을 상대로 고전하는모습을 보고싶을뿐이야. 이번대회를 통해서 실력갭이 줄어든건 확실해. 내년에는 EU팀도 선전하길 빌어.

[–]cheren90 19 점 14 hours ago 

The gap has not lessened, in season 2 we had a Taiwanese team win worlds and a WE/Fnatic IPL5 finals. In season 3 was there a gap between Korea and everyone else? Not really, Samsung Ozone's group stage performance showed the gap was between SKT and everyone else.

This is really the first season where Korea as a whole has been the best region, and not just one really good Korean team. As close as it was in C and D, all 3 Korean teams got first place in their group. If there was ever a larger gap it was only in people's heads.

실력차는 여전해, 시즌2롤드컵은 대만팀이 우승했고 IPL5 결승전은 WE대 프나틱이었지. 시즌3에 한국팀과 해외팀들 실력차가 나기 시작했다? 전혀, 삼성 광탈만 봐도 한국팀이 아닌 SKT대 나머지라는걸 알수있었어.

이번 시즌에서야 한국의 한 팀이 최강인게 아니라 '한국'이라는 나라가 최강라는걸 증명했어. C,D조가 죽음의 조였지만 한국은 전부 조1위를했고 옛날부터 한국팀과 해외팀간의 실력차가 컸다는건 너희들의 망상일뿐이야.

[–]ggthxnore 15 점 13 hours ago 

Not really, Samsung Ozone's group stage performance showed the gap was between SKT and everyone else.

Comically fucking wrong. Ozone shit the bed, but there were a lot of reasons behind it. The org change and losing their whole coaching staff, debuting their new top laner in his first professional game at Worlds (not criticizing Looper 'cause he played probably the best of all of them at the tournament, but aside from simple coordination/synergy issues the loss of Homme's in-game leadership should not be understated), dade's extremely narrow champion pool being obliterated by nerfs right before Worlds, and their crippling overconfidence and complacency.

Despite literally everything that could go wrong going wrong, Ozone at their nadir still would've made it out of groups had Vulcun not thrown vs. Gambit. And it's not even like they were the 2nd best Korean team! They were at best 3rd, but sadly the Bullets and SKT1 couldn't both make it.

There was and still is a gigantic gap. What's been proven is that Western teams can beat a Korean team in a bo1 if they shit the bed. Real proof of progress must be demonstrated in a bo5. TSM and C9 vs the Samsung teams in the quarterfinals is the chance to prove if they can go toe to toe. I hope the NA teams will show up big, but I would not count on it.

웃기지도 않은소리 조까. 오존이 개똥쌌지만 그럴만한 이유가 있었어. 팀멤버가 바뀌고 루퍼는 첫데뷔전을 롤드컵에서 치루었지 (절대로 루퍼를 까는게 아니야, 이번시즌에 그가보여준 기량은 최고였어. 하지만 옴므와 그의 리더쉽 부재는 간과할 요소가 아니야) 다데의 안그래도 조루 챔피언풀에 주로하는 챔피언의 너프, 그리고 해외팀들을 너무얕본점.

한국팀과의 갭은 예전에도, 그리고 지금도 존재해. 하지만 이번대회를 통해서 서부팀들도 광우병걸린소처럼 달려들면 1승정도는 할수있다는걸 증명했어. 하지만 진짜 인정을 받기 위해서는 3선승제에서 선전을 해야되. C9이랑 TSM이 삼성들을 상대로 충분히 맞설수 있다는걸 보여줫으면 좋겠어. 미국팀이 잘해줬으면 좋겠지만 그다지 기대하진 않아.

[–]kazuyaminegishi 11 점 13 hours ago 

Are you just forgetting IEM Katowice and All Stars? Cause KTB went undefeated at IEM Katowice and then went back to Korea and got destroyed and SKT T1 K went undefeated at All Stars and then went back to Korea and struggled. The gap may not be that wide now, but earlier this season it most certainly was.

IEM 카토비체랑 올스타 까먹은거야? KTB는 IEM에서 우승하고 한국으로 돌아가자마자 광탈했고 SKT도 올스타에서 무패를 했지만 한국으로 돌아가자마자 고전했어. 옛날에는 갭이 컸지만 지금은 예전에 비하면 많이 줄어든 편이야.

[–]demmonslayyer 5 점 12 hours ago 

You are just helping his point. He is stating that the gap became relevant in season 4... Both AllStars 2014, and IEM Katowice were in season 4

병신아 넌 쟤의견을 지지해주고있는거야. 쟤는 시즌4때 한국팀이 휩쓸고다녔다고한거야... 올스타랑 IEM카토비체 둘다 시즌4였어...

[–]kalakcha 4 점 14 hours ago 

No it hasn't

전혀 줄지않았어..

[–]Alvakowski 11 점 17 hours ago 

lol^{^} iam european and i was really happy that western teams performed that good and the skillgap may lowered a lot but its still way too huge! if u gonna disagree on that then pls tell me how u would approach ur bo5 against the samsung teams? No way that any western or any team from other regions beat a korean team in a bo5... iam sorry but thats my realistic opinion^{^} it would be definetly better if we had some real competition...

ㅋㅋㅋ 난 유럽팬인데 이번에 서부팀들이 한국을상대로 선전해서 아주기뻣어. 실력차는 줄어든거같긴 하지만 아직도 실력차는 천지차이인거같아! 내말에 반대하는 사람들은 삼성들을 상대로 3선승제에 대한 생각좀 말해줄래? 해외팀들은 한국을 상대로 3선승제에서 절대로 이길수없어... 미안하지만 이게 내 진짜 의견이야.

[–]Savignus 16 점 17 hours ago 

I don't think we can beat Koreans in a Bo5 yet.

But at least our top teams can match their top teams in mechanics and laning.

We need to work on our pick/ban and rotations though.

That said, these are the best teams we have. The western regions unfortunately run out of depth quite quickly.

Korea still has KT Arrows, SKT K sitting at home.

아직 3선승제를 이길수있을거같지는 않아. 그래도 우리의 최고팀들도 한국을 상대로 라인전/피지컬에서 밀리지 않아.

하지만 아직 픽밴에서는 많은 연구가 필요한거같아.

결론은 지금 롤드컵에 나가있는 팀들은 우리의 최고의 팀들이고 이게 우리의 한계야.

한국은 지금 3팀을 제외하고도 집에서 요양중인 KT애로우랑 SKT가 있어.

[–]Grinys 7 점 17 hours ago 

But at least our top teams can match their top teams in mechanics and laning.

That has always been the case, in fact prior to season 3 worlds you could easily say that european teams at least had better mechanics and teamfighting and laning. Its just the koreans strategy is so much better.

Korea still by far the best but there is hope that it will be closer in a years time.

그건 옛날부터 그래왔어. 오히려 시즌3때는 유럽팀 라인전과 피지컬, 한타능력은 한국보다 뛰어났어. 한국이 잘하는 이유는 그들의 전략때문이야.

한국이 여전히 최강이긴 하지만 시간이 지나면서 이 차이는 줄어들꺼라고 생각해.

[–]pabben2 5 점 16 hours ago 

KR>NA/EU always

언제나 한국>미국/유럽

[–]d1knight 3 점 16 hours ago 

I would say top tier teams can compete each other in every regions. The difference is depth of teams.

내 생각에는 각 지역의 최고팀들은 호각인거같아. 다만 한국처럼 잘하는팀이 많지 않을뿐이지.

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국제대회 늘리는거에 대한 레딧의견

[–]neenerpants 7 점 16 hours ago 

I'd liken it to soccer/football, personally. The World Cup is once every 4 years, and it has huge importance and excitement largely because of that reason.

However we have smaller international competitions every year in the form of the Champions League, the Europa League and various regional international tournaments (European Championship, Africa Cup of Nations, Copa America, etc.

I think this is vital to improving the overall quality of the teams involved in those tournaments. It honestly cannot be underestimated how much it helps to be regularly playing teams from other tournaments to adapt to various different tactics and styles. Here in the UK, back in the 80s all the English teams were banned from playing in Europe for 5 years and it set us back more like 10 years in terms of our development, because it took so long for us to get used to the European game that had grown and improved so much in that time.

축구랑 미식축구에 비교해서 말해볼게. 월드컵은 4년마다 열리기때문에 그 중요성이 부각되는거야.

하지만 롤은 롤드컵을 제하고도 자잘한 세계대회가 일년에 여러번 열리고 있어.

내생각에 이거는 대회에 출전하는 팀들에게 필수불가결인거같아. 이 시합들로인해 각 팀들은 각자의 실력을 시험해보고 다른 팀들의 전략이나 스타일에 적응하고 연구하게 되지. 우리 영국 축구팀은 80년도에 유럽리그에서 축구를 하는걸 5년동안 금지당한적이 있어. 이로인해 우리의 축구실력은 10년은 퇴보한거같았어. 유럽의 세련되고 향상된 축구에 적응하지 못했거든.

[–]Deep_Black_Joe 14 점 16 hours ago 

What makes the world cup every 4 years so good?

You have to wait 4 years for it.

도대체 4년에한번열리는 월드컵이 어딜봐서 좋다는거야?

한번 보려면 4년을 기다려야하는데

[–]MriTzii 16 점 18 hours ago 

No it honestly doesn't it just makes the regular season so dull and uneventful because we see the same teams play each other every weekend for several months

절대 안되. 그러면 매시즌 열리는 토너먼트들의 재미가 반감될거야. 매주 주말마다 같은팀들이 몇달동안 쉬지않고 경기를한다고 생각해봐.

[–]lolredditor 2 점 4 hours ago 

I haven't seen anything other than a highlight reel from LCS regular seasons in almost a year.

There's no reason to watch because there isn't even real pressure until towards the end when relegation might occur. When there's nothing on the line they're really just organized and sanctioned scrims.

난 LCS경기들도 하이라이트만 봤어. 볼 필요가 전혀 없거든. 왜냐하면 전혀 긴장감이 안느껴지거든. 시즌의 막바지가서 강등되는팀이 나올지도 모를때나 재미가있지 그전에는 그저 잘 정돈된 연습경기같은 느낌밖에 안줘.

[–]justMate 24 점 17 hours ago 

As a Dota 2 acive fan I have to say you are wrong. I cheer for big international tournaments and matches between Na Eu China every time but TI is still something sspecial.

도타2 팬으로서 나는 너의 의견에 반대야. 나도 중국,미국,유럽이 참여하는 세계적인 대회를 보고싶긴 하지만 그래도 롤드컵은 특별해야해.

[–]xTaranys 11 점 18 hours ago* 

Two tournaments a year wouldn't lower the hype at all, and might actually give meaning to the Spring split of LCS.

(Edit : changed a word.)

일년에 롤드컵두번정도로 재미가 반감되지는 않을거야. 그리고 LCS리그의 봄시즌에 대한 동기부여도 되겠지.

[–]Eenohay 10 점 17 hours ago 

Did people forget about all stars this year? There WAS a tournament in which the spring split (which is the one you mean) had meaning, and it was ALL STARS!

Forgot about it already? With SKT, FNC, Cloud 9, OMG and TPA?

Riot can easily expand this tournament for next year, maybe make it so the two first placed teams qualify instead of just one? You guys are acting like if Riot says it is unthinkable to make more tournaments

사람들은 이번 올스타에대해 까먹은건가? LCS의 스피링시즌도 충분히 의미가 있었어. 올스타때문에!

진짜 까먹었어? SKT, FNC, C9, OMG, TPA가 출전했는데?

라이엇은 내년에도 충분히 세계대회들을 더열어줄수도 있고, 1위팀만이 아닌 상위2팀이 나오게 바꿔주면 더좋을거같긴해. 라이엇이 세계대회는 일년에 하나만 고집하는거처럼 말하지마.

[–]OperaSona 19 점 17 hours ago 

AllStars was great and I hope they make something similar again, but at the same time it's clearly not as meaningful to the scene as a "serious" tournament. Even if you only count the 50% of games that were played by actual teams with their actual rosters (except for Link<->Hai), Korea didn't send the team that was strongest in OGN at the time, there was only one team per region, and the format wasn't meant to show many games and actually properly estimate the relative strengths of the teams/regions.

올스타는 아주 좋았고 내년에도 비슷한걸 해줬으면 좋겠어. 하지만 올스타와 롤드컵의 중요성과 무게를 동등하게 보면 안되. 경기수도 많지 않았고, 한국은 OGN우승팀을 내보내지 않았어.

[–]Broskander 2 점 16 hours ago 

Right, because the wonky OGN schedule meant that they had to send a team not currently competing. Which is why Riot is planning on standardization for league schedules next season.

그래, 이상한 OGN스케쥴때문에 경기가 없는 팀을 내보내야 했어. 그리고 라이엇이 한국의 리그방식을 바꾸려고하는것도 이때문이지.

[–]Dagrey69 5 점 13 hours ago 

We all know BR > KR.

Come on guys is this really something to argue over?

우리모두 브라질>한국이란걸 알잖아.

이게 토론거리도 안되는거 알잖아?

결론: 미국/유럽 평화협정 대동단결, 타도 한국